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Building Blocks 16: Weapon Comparisons 15

Calculating Weapon Damage pt 15: Horoth

We’ve talked about weapons, monsters, fortification, and pretty much everything related to calculating weapon damage in general and for various generic monsters.  Now let’s put everything together and consider a specific monster: Horoth the devil general who is the final raid boss in the Tower of Despair.  And for extra giggles lets consider his hard version.

On hard Horoth has the following relevant statistics (according to http://ddowiki.com/page/Horoth): damage reduction 25 silver AND good, resistance 30+ in acid and cold (for weapons this is sufficient to negate relevant damage on the weapons we have been considering), immunity to fire, and 65% damage reduction.  For the sake of argument with the prevalence of crafting, I will assume that the “random” holy burst falchions are also silver.  We are also assuming that to-hit is not an issue and that all critical hits are confirmed.

Min 2 Falchion 65%
2d6+5 12.66
[D] 1.055
[S] 0.21
Holy 6.65
Acid burst 0
Acid blast 0
Slicing 2.375
Totals (w/o [D] & [S]) 21.685
.
Epic Antique Greataxe 65%
3d10+6 22.95
[D] 1.02
[S] 0.105
Righteousness 2.04
Force burst 4.425
Totals (w/o [D] & [S]) 29.415
.
+5 Holy burst Gbane 65%
2d4+5 10.55
[D] 1.055
[S] 0.21
Holy burst 9.8
Greater bane 13.14
Totals (w/o [D] & [S]) 33.49
.
Lit 2 Falchion 65%
2d6+5 -11.09
[D] 1.055
[S] 0.21
Holy 6.65
Electric burst 4.975
Electric blast 2.35
Lightning strike 8.6925
Totals (w/o [D] & [S]) 11.5775
.
+5 Holy burst (vorpal) 65%
2d4+5 10.55
[D] 1.055
[S] 0.21
Holy burst 9.8
Vorpal bane 18.3
Totals (w/o [D] & [S]) 38.65
.
Epic Sword of Shadows 65%
5d6+10 8.15
[D] 1.16
[S] 0.315

So what can we take away from this?  First, on hard, we can see that a mineral 2 weapon is better than a lightning 2 weapon.  They have the same value for D and S so we can ignore these values for comparisons.  Remember that while actual numbers will vary slightly, because both are made from the same greensteel weapon blank we can extrapolate that if this is true for one weapon type at this margin (the falchion) that this is also true for all greensteel weapon types.  Most of our other weapons bypass damage reduction and their damage all still applies so their values have not changed from before.  But what about the eSoS?  It clearly took a heavy hit since much of its damage comes from critical hits and except in rare cases it cannot bypass damage reduction.  Let’s see for what value of D the eSoS does better than a mineral 2 falchion when S=6.

8.15+1.16D+0.315(6) = 21.685+1.055D+0.21(6) >>> 8.15+1.89+1.16D = 21.685+1.26+1.055D >>> 0.105D=12.905 >>> D=122.9

So D would have to be at least 123 before the eSoS would out perform a mineral 2 falchion against Horoth. Assuming you had a 50 strength (+20*1.5=30) and power attack with say action points improving that by 3 (8*2=16) you would still need another 77 points of damage.

What about the mineral 2 vs the Epic Antique Greataxe?

21.685+1.26+1.055D = 29.415+0.105(6)+1.02D >>> 22.945+1.055D = 30.045+1.02D >>> 0.035D= 7.1 >>> D=202.857

Yeah you are reading that right.  A mineral 2 falchion does not do more damage than the Epic Antique Greataxe until D reaches 203…good luck with that.  These calculations show us that even with a moderate fortification the benefits of larger critical profiles diminish rapidly.

Let’s quickly look at Horoth on normal.  This reduces his damage reduction to 15 good AND silver and his fortification to 50%.

Min 2 Falchion 50%
2d6+5 13.2
[D] 1.1
[S] 0.3
Holy 6.65
Acid burst 0
Acid blast 0
Slicing 2.375
Totals (w/o [D] & [S]) 22.225
.
Epic Antique Greataxe 50%
3d10+6 23.625
[D] 1.05
[S] 0.15
Righteousness 2.1
Force burst 4.425
Totals (w/o [D] & [S]) 30.15
.
+5 Holy burst Gbane 50%
2d4+5 11
[D] 1.1
[S] 0.3
Holy burst 9.8
Greater bane 13.275
Totals (w/o [D] & [S]) 34.075
.
Lit 2 Falchion 50%
2d6+5 -1.05
[D] 1.1
[S] 0.3
Holy 6.65
Electric burst 4.975
Electric blast 2.35
Lightning strike 8.6925
Totals (w/o [D] & [S]) 21.6175
.
+5 Holy burst (vorpal) 50%
2d4+5 11
[D] 1.1
[S] 0.3
Holy burst 9.8
Vorpal bane 18.3
Totals (w/o [D] & [S]) 39.1
.
Epic Sword of Shadows 50%
5d6+10 20.125
[D] 1.25
[S] 0.45

Notice again that a mineral 2 falchion is still better than the lightning 2 (though that margin is much smaller)*.  Let’s revisit the eSoS vs the mineral 2 falchion with that trusty S=6

20.125+.45(6)+1.25D = 22.225+.3(6)+1.1D >>> 0.15D = 1.2 >>> D = 8

See now that’s more reasonable.  Now let’s compare the mineral 2 and the eSoS to the Epic Antique Greataxe

Mineral 2: 22.225+.3(6)+1.1D = 30.15+.15(6)+1.05D >>> .05D = 7.025 >>> D=140.5

eSoS: 20.125+.45(6)+1.25D = 30.15+.15(6)+1.05D >>> .2D = 8.225 >>> D=41.125

Well at least the eSoS is a reasonable and reachable target.

If you have a topic or a build you’d like me to look at drop me an email (ddoepiceducation@gmail.com) or leave a comment.  I am in no way guaranteeing that I will consider, reply to, or let alone read comments in anything resembling a timely manner (sorry, time is unfortunately not an infinite resource of mine until I am high enough level to cast time stop).

*this will be explored more fully next time.  However, as a teaser, there is 1, and only 1 greensteel weapon that is still better as a lightning 2.  Can you guess what it is?

Comments (16)

  1. TorGrimorde

    “there is 1, and only 1 greensteel weapon that is still better as a lightning 2. Can you guess what it is?”

    hmmm.. I have quarterstaff in my head for some reason. I’ve probably read that somewhere, and it’s also probably completely wrong 🙂

  2. […] Horoth in the Tower of Despair raid in his latest “Building Blocks” column in my.ddo. Click here to read […]

  3. MrWizard

    Not familiar with the equations, forgive a stupid question….

    what is D and S??
    Without that knowledge I have no basis for understanding any of the information presented…

    (wish you had done a min II kopesh in that too)
    🙂

  4. pjstechie

    D is a variable representing your damage modification. Basically, anything that adds damage goes here (strength, bard songs, power attack etc). The numbers here already include the weinberg enhancement modifier in them, but if they were not they would also go here.

    S represents the seeker bonus, this would be damage that only apples on a critical hit, most commonly obtained with a seeker magical attribute (like on the blood stone).

    My previous articles on weapon comparisons form the groundwork for these formulas from square 1 if you want to learn more about the formulas I use. You should be able to access them via the categories interface under the above title.

    As far as the kopesh is concerned, it was original included in this segment, but it was getting too long so I broke it off into a second segment and went more in depth with comparing mineral 2s and lightning 2s. Look for it next week sometime.

  5. sirgog

    I’d also add in the Epic Elemental Greataxe of Fire (tier 3, slotted Good) to your comparisons. It’s metalline, good-aligned, has enhanced base damage and Brilliance, and is pretty close to the Epic Antique against fire immune mobs and massively ahead against targets that only resist fire (Lailat, etc).

    Also it comes from content that doesn’t have lockout timers, making it possible to obtain in one play session.

    Whilst using a weapon with visible fire particle effects on Horoth looks silly, it certainly gets results.

  6. pjstechie

    The epic elemental axe isn’t as good as you might think compared to the antique. This isn’t a full calculation, but consider:

    Antique does 3d10+8 vs Elementals 2d12+6 (Antique does a extra 2 from righteousness).

    I did a quick calculation of the epic elemental axe less the fire damage and it does 26ish damage per swing against 0 fortification compared to 32ish on the antique and 24ish with a min 2 falchion (less the acid damage). So that should put it inbetween the 2 but much closer to the mineral 2.

    In any case, I hope to do a robust editing of my online spreadsheet to include many more specific weapons, but time has been a major factor for me this year. 99% of this column (and 90% of the writing for my epic education segment) has been when I have free time away from my home computer. But with epic levels and the enhancement pass I probably won’t look to start doing in depth builds for a while so that will hopefully buy me some time.

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